Forum Activity for @noah-cline

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hello to all. I'm Noah. Though I'm better known for my banjo playing and building on Banjo Hangout and YouTube (I've been playing for about ten years and building gourd and mountain style banjos for about five), I've had much interest in the mountain dulcimer. I started playing dulcimer in 2015 on the first one I made, after deciding that instead of buying one I could probably make a decent one, since I had about 20 banjos under my belt at the time. To date, I've made four. My first was a 4-string (double melody) walnut/cherry hourglass, and after playing it for some time and deciding what I liked/didn't like, I made my second, a 3-string walnut teardrop, which is the style I've favored the most and built since. I have a few pics of these on my profile. 

I was aware that this site existed, but I completely forgot about it until stumbling upon it again and decided to join. 

Links to my BHO profile and YouTube channel:

BHO: http://www.banjohangout.org/my/Noah+Cline 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4zlsglpLMap5XSaUPaQ7QA?view_as=subscriber

 

updated by @noah-cline: 08/10/18 04:53:39PM

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 

If a total beginner is told to 'count your frets' then they'd likely be including both the 6 and the 6.5 fret when counting-  thus thinking that the repeat octave is the C#.  Most beginners don't yet know that they should count EITHER the 6 OR the 6.5 fret when 'counting frets'.. but not count both.  I think it really helps to look at a picture:

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Count your frets. Fret 7 is the repeat octave of the open strings. You show the C# [DB] as the 7th fret and D as the 8th fret. You included the C and the C#. One is for the D scale [C#] and one is for the G scale [C]. The 6+ fret allows playing a D scale, in DAd tuning, starting at the open string instead of the 3rd fret. This is because the frets are placed in a series of steps/half steps. Steps are the wide spaces. Half steps are the narrow spaces.

G scale = 3-4-5-6-7-8-9

D scale = 0-1-2-3-4-5-6+

updated by @skip: 08/10/18 10:48:38AM

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I see from my friends here you have received all the help you need on this issue. Enjoy your dulcimer. Have fun playing it. Anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It looks and sounds like your frets are fine.

I think people are making this more complicated than what you are asking and confused about.

The problem here is that on your D string the "G flat" note as you call it is more correctly called "F sharp"(F#).  And what you are calling "D flat" is actually called "C sharp"(C#).  The note half a step lower than G is usually called Fsharp, not G flat..though an F# & Gflat are both the same sounding note.   Likewise, the note a half step lower than D is more commonly called Csharp, not Dflat... yet both are the same 'sounding' note.  A glass of water which has water in it to the halfway (half fret) mark- is it called "half empty" (a 'flat' note) or called "half full"? (a 'sharp' note)- both describe the same amount of water (or the very same sounding note in this case).

It's easy to get this confused.  Also think of a clock that's at 3:30.  Is it 30 minutes past 3, OR is it 30 minutes to 4 ?  One can think of the halfway point really in two different ways.  So that note between C and D ...is it a C#, or a Dflat ?  In the key of D it's called a C#, because the key of D is defined as having two sharps in it: a C# and an F#.... and no flats.   

So, your dulcimer string when tuned to D is in fact  correctly  fretted and is playing:  D(open string), E, F#, G, A, B, C, C#, and D.

updated by @strumelia: 08/10/18 09:05:01AM

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That doesn't sound right although in MD talk we express the notes in sharps.

You should have:(nut)D-wide space-(1)E-wide space-(2)F#[Gb]-narrow space-(3)G-wide space-(4)A-wide space-(5)B-narrow space-(6)C-wide space-(7)D. The spacing then repeats. Any frets not in this order are plus frets. You may be counting the 6 1/2 (6+), getting the D scale, then your list is ok.

The MD fretboard is laid out in such a way to make the open scale of a D tuned string as being in the mixolydian mode of the key of G. This layout places the starting note of the ionian mode, used to name the strings key, on the 3rd  fret. So if you check the notes from there up you will see the notes are in the order of the key of G: G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G.

 

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi Ray,  welcome to our wacky but wonderful world.  I've included a link to my article "I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?  which is an illustrated glossary (so we all talk the same way about the same things) as well as answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new "friend".

First thing is, we talk about going "up" the fretboard (not down) because the notes go up in pitch as you move from the tuning head towards the tail end.

Second thing is, we usually write DAd rather than DAD.  DAd reminds us that the bass string is tuned to D, the middle drone is tuned to A, and the melody string (closest to you) is tuned to d -- an octave higher in pitch than the bass D.

Third thing is that your dulcimer has what we call a 6+ or six-plus fret.  There is also a 13+ fret.  There's a long explanation that I won't go into here, but when you count fret numbers (when playing from tabulature for example), on your dulcimer you would count -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6+, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 13+, 14, 15, 16

Fourth thing is that your dulcimer has 4 strings -- a "doubled melody course" as we say.  Lots of people take off one of the two melody strings to make things simpler, especially when you're just starting out.

If you are tuned DAd, this is sometimes called a Mixolydian tuning, and the scale starts at the open (un-fretted) note.  That note is d.  The first fret is e, then f#, g, a, b, c', c'#,d'...  

If you tune to DAA, then the scale starts at the 3rd fret, with d, e, f#, a, b....

A lot of players pay no attention to the letter designations (A, C#, Db, etc.) they "play by number" pressing fret 3, fret 4, fret 6 as called for by the song.   You don't have to know about chords (although a lot of people will tell you that you really should) -- you can play traditionally by picking out the melody on the melody string (nearest to you) and just letting the other two string drone.

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ray, the scale starts at the third fret and goes up.

Question about fret layout.

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I have a question about fret placement on my dulcimer. My dulcimer was a kit I found in a thrift store. I have it tuned to DAD. When I fret the melody strings closest to me they progress down the fretboard E, G flat, G, A, B C, D flat, D. Does that sound right to everyone. I am new to the dulcimer and want to learn how to play. I  have attached a picture of my dulcimer if that will help.

Frame Drums

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Yes, it does indeed.  Have you read Layne Redmond's book When Drummers were Women (or is it When Women were Drummers)?.  How about you?  Have you been playing?  So far we're starting to learn the middle eastern rhythms (Ayoub, Baladi, Chiftiteli etc) and some of Marla Leigh's and others' tutorials.  As you said, lots of material available. What have you been learning/doing with yours? (Always looking for ideas!)

Frame Drums

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Eileen, I think that is SOOOOO wonderful that you started your OWN group of women to learn frame drumming together.  What could possibly be nicer??  I know that the tradition of women frame drummers goes back to very ancient times.

I imagine that the spirits of women from many different times and cultures are looking down on your little group with smiles and full hearts.  

I wish you would take a photo of your group and post it here!

updated by @strumelia: 08/09/18 06:12:41PM

Frame Drums

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hi again after quite the long absence.  Wondering how you've done with your frame drum?  This summer, 3 women and I have formed a little "learn-frame-drumming" group and we're all loving it.  Youtube is our teacher!  So far we all have smallish basic remo tars/frame drums.  I'm going to check out a darbuka today (kijiji).  Another big learning curve for sure.  There is so much more to this than one would have expected - after the first Doum-Tek_Ka lessons!

Intermediates

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Here's what I wrote in my blog about the Tab vs. By Ear debate nine years ago:

https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2009/04/tabis-it-bad-or-good.html

Intermediates

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It's really nice to be able to play by ear, not a "slave" to tab. But the main question is: Who's having fun? Hopefully, everyone. I've only been to two dulcimer jams, and that was in my 1st year of playing. I'll tell you what's what. I've never seen such a large group of people having so much fun. And 90% were looking at tab while playing. Do it your way.

updated by @terry-wilson: 08/09/18 04:20:59PM

Intermediates

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

One of the peculiarities I see among many of the others in my dulcimer group is an over-reliance on tablature. They are slaves to it. They don't hear the music -- they only play the notes. I play by ear primarily, and if I can't quite get it, I go through the tabs note by note. I play a lot of chords and link them with melody notes where possible. More and more often I actually look up at the standard musical notation rather than the tabs. There's a lot of information there.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. . . . Bill in NM

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

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Yay, @hugssandi ! 

Geckostar, the way I get these kinds of wanted items is that I set up a 'saved search' on Ebay that will send me an email alert the moment something with my key words pops up for sale.  I've gotten very lucky using this method to get particular instruments I was hoping for, a couple of times!

BTW... welcome to FOTMD!  

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

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Only week 2, but still going strong with HASfit.  :)

Hi Geckostar97, I have two Bob Magowan mountain dulcimers that I play regularly (a baritone chromatic dulcimer and a non-chromatic standard style), and my husband has a Magowan "jocimer" (banjo/dulcimer). We love these instruments! If you get a chance, get yourself a Magowan instrument and enjoy!   

   

 

 

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

OFF TOPIC discussions

That sounds like a good program, @Hugssandi !

@Dusty-Turtle I remember watching some Chinese cooking show on tv long ago, and one of the secret ingredients was... ketchup!  I followed the recipes from the show and the result was pretty awesome.  

 

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Welcome John! That Kinniard dulcimer is beautiful and quite the find. Guitar is my first instrument, since 1973. I'm well aware of Kinniard guitars.....works of art and beautiful voices. I bet that dulcimer is truly special.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank You Ken. The links are very much appreciated.

 

 

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi John-c  Welcome to our wacky and wonderful world.  I've added links to a couple of articles I wrote years ago, which you may find useful as you start your dulcimer journey. 

I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What? is an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms (so we all speak the same lingo), plus answers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing, care and feeding of your new instrument.

Get Noterized is a beginner's guide to playing the dulcimer in a traditional (non-3-finger chord) style.

Uncontrite Modal Folker is a discussion of musical Modes and Modal Tunings and how they apply to the mountain dulcimer.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

NSThoreau, I have the same exact same old Dulcimer Shoppe kit.  It has a 28" scale length, and the tuners had a hard time holding the strings. I changed the tuners years ago, but my dulcimer still has a bit of a problem holding its strings at high tension. Not exactly sure why that was, but I wasn't about to spend another amount of $ on a third set of tuners, so I left it with my replacements, which are working ok.  The instrument is made from quite thin wood. 
If you continue with the problem, I might suggest you change to .010 strings for the melody strings rather than .012, since the thinner strings will be at a lesser tension.  You also might want to try tuning to the key of C rather than D, which helps as well to reduce the pull on the strings.  

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hello everyone. I'm John from Lawrenceburg, KY. I had a dulcimer back in the 80s. Not sure who it was made by, but learned how to play with a noter a little. I don't think at the time I really understood or appreciated the instrument so I traded it off, and my interests turned towards the guitar. About 3 years ago I purchased a Psaltery at the Gatlinburg craftsman fair and have enjoyed learning it. Just recently I came across a John Kinniard Dulcimer (pics attached). I sent John an email and did get a response. He was very surprised that I found one of his, but as I understand it he only makes very high end guitars now. I have a renewed interest in the Dulcimer now, and basically lost my mind over them. Purchased a McSpadden off ebay and anxiously waiting it's arrival. BTW if anyone has any info or experience with the John Kinniard Dulcimer please share.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Enjoy your Sweet Song dulcimer. Like John, I've assembled a few of them. They are a nice dulcimer. I do like the walnut ones.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I was prepared to have a new "dulcimer shaped object" for my wall. I'm happy it's playable. It's a different instrument from my other two, so need to spend some time with it and see what it can do.

BTW --- my wife plays autoharp (sounds great with dulcimer) BUT she refuses to name her autoharps - even though she loves my names. Go Figure.

I suppose I'm one of the "Strange Ones" that names their dulcimers. I have "5" with names (4 of them are named after my wife's grandmothers and mine). Louise, Lola, Gertrude & Mary Francis. My Tennessee Flat Box is "Jesse James" - named after my father (Jesse) and my wife's father (James). We never had a son to name J.J.   --- 3 daughters instead and Holly, Krista or Bethany just don't sound like dulcimer names.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That's great that you could pick up that dulcimer "for a song".  McSpadden/Dulcimer Shoppe makes a nice kit, and I've assembled several of them.  Mine came out well each time. The plans are clear and the materials are good, unlike some other kits that I won't mention.  Congratulations, and enjoy the newest addition to your family!

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I am wrong again. I need a better light to read this label. The bottom reads "a kit from the Dulcimer Shoppe". Must be an early kit and the workmanship is good. I wonder if maybe they had lessons and helped people put their kit together?

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It's 35.5" total length. I've read some dulcimer makers in the 70s made a travel size. That's what this remins me of. I'll try and find out more when I call the Dulcimer Shoppe. The label does say Mountain View Arkansas.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It's not a McSpadden kit, I have one. The sound holes are too big, the holes on the large bout are at the 12th fret [McSpaddens are at 14th] and the fretboard looks to be too wide.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Correction. I took another look and the maker is John A. Morris. I thought about a kit but those don't usually have a maker's name. I planned to call Dulcimer Shoppe tomorrow. I did find a previous post that talked about tightening those screws and it seems to help. I put a set of D'Addario dulcimer strings on it (.012, .014, and .022) which sound okay. Someone set this up to play with equidistant strongs so it's hard to tell where the strings should go on the bridge and nut.

Still going to do the happy dance here! It will have a good home.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The label should have a model number on it. Some of the Sweet Song dulcimers (with SS in the model number) were kits, and Morris may have bought and built a kit. Strings you can get at lots of music stores or online - you can use any loop-end string of the right size. And the tuners have small screws in the ends you can tighten a bit to keep them from slipping.

Dulcimer just followed me home

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

My husband sent me a link to the Facebook marketplace yesterday. There was a dulcimer for $40. I felt sort of sorry for it and checked to see if it was still available. All I had to go on was that there was a label with a date of 1976 and that it was from Arkansas. I picked it up today. The owner bought it in the 70s, played a bit then just kept moving it with him. He decided it was time to let it go. 

It's from the Dulcimer Shoppe, March 1976 and the label says the builder was A. Morris. It's walnut plywood, with those metal pegs that are slipping right now. And it needs new strings. Can I call it a McSpadden?

 

 

updated by @notsothoreau: 03/20/20 01:20:16AM

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

OFF TOPIC discussions

Thank you, Strumelia.  I'm doing the August Foundation schedule from HASfit.com, and it is a perfect, safe startup.  All the vids are free on YouTube, too!  Solid program.  I'm sore, but it's been a good week!  Tomorrow = rest day.  

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

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Ken & Terry, I'm sure you will enjoy this soup.  Don't be afraid to fiddle toward the finish and get the flavor just the way you like it. My wife actually adds ketchup, something I was radically opposed to until we were dining in a Mexican seafood restaurant in San Francisco one day and I saw someone adding ketchup to their own. If I overdo to the lemon juice or clam juice I will sometimes add some tomato paste. My wife and I both enjoy spicy food, and if we are the only ones eating I'll sometimes cut up a fresh jalapeno into tiny pieces, but you have to be careful with that since hot peppers vary so much in strength.  Prepared hot sauces are easier to control.  You can play around and see what you like.  Bon appetit!

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

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Dusty, I'm gonna do it. Looks and appears delicious.

Thank you.

Healthy Living- healthy eating, exercise, weight loss, veggie gardening, etc.

OFF TOPIC discussions

Good recipe there Dusty!   Cold soups are a great thing to serve in the summer.  I make several kinds, and may have to add your simple Cocktel de Camaron to the repertoire.